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Recently, legendary Def Leppard/Man Raze guitarist Phil Collen (ex-Girl) was kind enough to take a break from his decidedly hectic schedule to speak with us regarding the release of the group’s highly-anticipated full-length debut Surreal…
Todd: How was Man Raze initially formed? I wasn’t aware you actually had any free time available to devote to a side-project?
Phil Collen: “Neither was I (laughs). I had gone to London to see my Dad because he was actually terminally ill…so I was just hangin’ out with him. I’ve always kept in touch with (former Girl drummer) Simon Laffy because I used to be in a band with him years ago. I just mentioned song ideas that I had…because when we were in Girl, we never actually wrote together.”
Todd: Really? I guess I always just assumed the group’s material was the result of a collective effort…
Phil: “Yeah, we never actually sat down and wrote together even though we have very similar backgrounds, ya know? Just all sorts of different things from…Stanley Clark to the Sex Pistols and everything in between…some Police stuff, a lot of Reggae…just a lot of stuff that wasn’t necessarily Glam Rock. The whole Girl thing was pretty much based on the New York Dolls and Aerosmith, really. This whole thing…I had an idea for a song and it just took off. We were like ‘Wow, this would be really great as a three piece and it would be really great if (legendary Sex Pistols drummer) Paul Cook was the drummer because I’ve just always loved his playing. I had just come back from the hospital where my Dad was at and I saw Paul in the street. I live in California, so this whole thing just happened over the period of like three days. We started to get some songs together and we just clicked as writers, which is kinda bizarre because you can’t do that with everyone. We got these songs together, got in touch with Paul again, had a rehearsal and it was like ‘Wow! This is really cool’. It literally just went on from there and kept growing and developing. We talked about it a lot, ya know? We’d go out…me and Paul and the three of us and we’d be like ‘Wouldn’t it be great if we could explore some of these things that we’re influenced by that were never allowed to come out?’ We’re all from London and there were some very special musical tastes that were floatin’ around. …There was this whole Reggae thing. In the ‘60’s and ‘70’s, there was this whole influx of Jamaican Reggae. You used to just hear it and it’d be in your DNA. …Plus, there was the whole Punk thing and the reasons for the Punk thing, just the whole London thing. All of this started coming out and became its own little thing, which kinda surprised me because I didn’t have the capacity for that having been in the business for so long, having written so many songs and doing a certain thing. So it came as kind of a shock to me. It came as a very natural progression. We just let it do its thing. It was actually very exciting, I gotta admit. It was very liberating as well.”
Todd: Overall, aside from not collaborating with the other members of the group, how did the songwriting process for Surreal historically differ from your experiences writing with Def Leppard?
Phil: “…In the ‘90’s, we had an album called Slang. We put out that album as a sort of response to all of the things that we had been doing before, ya know? Hysteria and Adrenalize sounded very similar…and then there was the whole Grunge thing, which really was America’s Punk movement. We saw that whole thing exploding for absolutely all the right reasons and we thought it would be a great opportunity to star recording something a little different. But the fans and the industry didn’t like it when we actually veered away and did something a little bit more special and natural for us, ya know? That kinda stung, really. But with that being said, with Man Raze, you can push that sort of thing a little bit further. …We can go Dub Reggae; we can do full-on Punk if we want. It’s a great. Like I said, it’s great…it’s very liberating. With Def Leppard, we spoke about it a million times, but we were like ‘Well, we can’t go there’. It’s a shame, ya know? Because you want to draw out more as a band, but it’s a lot more difficult in Def Leppard. We have to think a lot harder about who we’re appealing to and how we’re not going to put people off. It’s a real drain. You can’t just go ‘Okay, I’m just gonna create something and express myself’. With Man Raze, you can actually do that. This was our first album and we could have done anything we wanted. We’ll see what happens (laughs). We may have to keep doing this because we’ve painted ourselves into a corner or something (laughs).”
Todd: Does Def Leppard’s past, and thus the group’s established sound, ultimately dictate what the group can and cannot do creatively?
Phil: “It does. …We just put out this album called Songs From The Sparkle Lounge… And what we learned from our covers album (2006’s Yeah!) is that you can’t succumb to everyone. People we’re like ‘Well, you guys should do this song. It was a hit’. And we were like ‘No. We wanna do “Drive-In Saturday” by David Bowie’. Nobody knew it, but it’s really special to us, so we wanted to do it. Yeah! was a very selfish album, but the good thing about it was that a lot of people actually liked it. We actually did the next album kinda like that, ya know? We’d come up with different songs like “Love”, which (bassist Rick) Savage wrote. His favorite band is Queen and he really wanted to get that off his chest. In this environment, it totally worked. We had all these songs that were slightly different like the thing we did with Tim McGraw (“Nine Lives”) and “Go”. Everyone brought in these different ideas, but they all kinda worked. We’d done it very quickly for a Def Leppard album, really. So that was kinda exciting. But again, with Man Raze, it’s a totally different thing where you can be totally free, even lyrically. …You can write about what you want.”
Todd: What was the main inspiration behind the name Man Raze? The first time I heard the name, I wasn’t quite sure what to make of it…
Phil: “…It’s actually funny how the name came about. Me and (Def Leppard frontman) Joe (Elliot) are always goofin’ off, ya know? We’ve been together way too long. We can finish each other’s sentences…in fact, everyone in the band can. I’m always comin’ up with things like ‘Oh, this would be great for a band name’ and Fay Wray, like the original girl from King Kong, was one of them. When we got this band together, all of a sudden, we needed a name. …We had rehearsed and all of a sudden it was like ‘Whoa! We’re a band’…so I had this name kickin’ around. In England, Fay actually means Gay (laughs). It’s a little light, so you’re gonna get sticked for it. We were like ‘What if we made it a bit more manly like the artist Man Ray?’ Literally, in the time it took to explain that in a conversation, we became Man Raze. It sounded manly, it sounded a bit artsy, but not quite that (laughs). …It’s a manly name, I guess (laughs).”
Todd: Did you initially find it difficult to assume the role of the group’s lead vocalist after spending such an incredible amount of time primarily focusing on your duties as a guitarist?
Phil: “No. I’ve been singin’ since I was a kid…either in the car or wherever I happen to be. In Def Leppard, I sing so much. It’s on every song. I have to run back for the choruses and the bridges…so there’s a lot of singing going on there. Plus, one of the great things about working with (legendary Producer Robert John) “Mutt” Lange was that he really taught me how to sing. …What I learned from him is just incredible, so just as a byproduct, I guess, I could just naturally do that. …It was more a matter of self-expression. This is how I express myself artistically or whatever. It wasn’t really done in a certain style. And even with that, I did have to find my own voice. Before we actually went in and recorded the songs, we had been goin’ for about a year and a half. Even with all of the rehearsals, I was still kinda developin’ it. To a point, we’re still doin’ it…developin’ as a band, which is really a claim.”
Todd: How do you respond to those that insist that vocally, you sound too similar to Joe Elliot?
Phil: “…I think they’re listening to the wrong record. To me, it sounds nothing like it. Obviously there’s little things that Joe and I sound similar on, but we both pretty much learned from “Mutt” Lange, so you’re gonna have that. …I met Phil Everly (of the Everly Brothers) once and I asked him ‘How did you and your brother just blend’, ya know? …He was like ‘Well, we learned from the same guy’. After a while, you just get this blend that you can’t really describe. And that happened with Def Leppard. I distinctly remember it happening. We all learned from the same guy and we started to have a natural blend with our backing vocals. …It is something that happens when you sing and perform together enough with someone. It goes above being a musician thing and almost becomes spiritual, ya know? (laughs) It’s almost like being channeled or something. When that happens, it’s a really cool thing, ya know? …Some nights, you’ve just go no control over it and it’s doin’ its own thing. It’s a really cool thing and I think that’s what happened with me, Joe and the rest of the guys. So if there’s any comparisons, it’s probably because of that, ya know? As far as the actual bands go, I think there’s a completely different approach there.”
Todd: What are your current touring plans? I would imagine Def Leppard’s present obligations greatly restrict what you’re able to get away with…
Phil: “…Def Leppard has a break in September. We’ll be doin’ a bunch of TV things on the East Coast, so I think mainly we’ll be tryin’ to slide in a bunch of East Coast dates. Maybe we’ll do a California date and I don’t know, perhaps a Canadian date, but that’ll have to be settled. We think it’ll be late September.”
Todd: What type of set list will you be working with? I’m assuming you’ll be playing the majority--if not all--of the material from Surreal. Any chance you’ll be throwing in a few surprises?
Phil: “Yeah, that’s pretty much it. We’ve done a couple of cover songs. We threw in an Iggy Pop song called “Cold Metal”, which (legendary Sex Pistols guitarist) Steve Jones played on and then just a Hendrix cover, so we’ve got a few covers floatin’ around. The Hendrix thing is nice because they were a three piece and it’s nice to actually get into that. Again, I found that very liberating…we can actually go off on these little jam things. We’re not restricted or constricted, ya know? …It’s a very different entity, I think, as a three piece. I didn’t realize that until we started playing. Obviously The Police are one of my favorite bands along with Jimi Hendrix… It was interesting because it all became very apparent, that whole thing. There’s a bit more pressure on me as a singer because I have to keep gettin’ back to the microphone. I can’t just go wandering around when I’ve got half a verse… It stops you a little bit there, but musically, it’s a very cool thing because we can all sort of jam and just go. It’s cool.”
Todd: Realistically, what are you commercial expectations for Surreal?
Phil: “…Now that it’s done and it’s out, I think it sits in a different corner. It sits in a space of its own, I think. We just want people to hear it. It’s the same old thing like with Def Leppard where we’re really proud of it. It’s already getting played on some stations that wouldn’t necessarily play Def Leppard…and we’ve been getting some reviews from full-on Metal magazines and websites, so…it’s really wide open, I think.”
Todd: Taking into consideration everyone’s schedules and prior commitments, do you ever foresee a full-fledged Girl reunion? Phil Lewis has previously mentioned he wouldn’t be opposed to the idea…
Phil: “…I don’t think so. I don’t see a need for it. There’s a reason for Man Raze. We’re really excited about it. We’re really into it and it keeps getting better. …We did this live thing in Burbank about two months ago just before Paul Cook started rehearsin’ with the Pistols. They just started their own tour. …We just sat around at my house and played and we filmed it. We have a lot to say. We’ve got half the second album written already. We’ve got the music and again, it’s developing. Some of the songs are a bit more commercial, but again, we wanna out the brakes on all that so we don’t paint ourselves into a corner. Some of the songs are quite Poppy, so it’s an interesting thing…how to handle that. It’s kinda time consuming, but its fun as well. Stuff like a Girl reunion is way back on the back burner, especially when the Def Leppard tour just got extended. We just got Southeast Asia, South America, India… …It’s been really great. We’ve had sixteen year old kids just goin’ absolutely berserk and it’s like ‘Wow! This is like a new lease on life.’ It’s great.”
Todd: In hindsight, what have been the main motivations behind the decidedly prolonged lengths of time between Def Leppard releases? Have the delays always been a conscious decision or simply a consequence of the creative process?
Phil: “I think in the past, it had always just been the way we’d done things, ya know? We’d record an album, put it out, tour for a year and then it’d be three years or five years or whatever before we’d do another album. We managed to cut that down with this album by starting to record it while we were on tour. That really made all the difference in the world. It made a difference in the energy of the record and also to how we broke that nasty, three year, sittin’ around middle age cycle, ya know? It really wasn’t appealing. The way we’re working, we’ve never been this busy before. I kinda like it, ya know? Again, it’s exciting. You can achieve things just by fulfilling little ambitions, ya know? Even if it’s just stuff about T-Shirts, touring or the production of the show. I get a million E-Mails everyday and if it’s not about Def Leppard, it’s about Man Raze. Because of that, it keeps me on my toes. Yes, it’s very tiring and exhausting, but it’s also the reason I got into a band in the first place. It’s more musical for me these days than it’s ever actually been in my entire life. I’m really diggin’ it.”
Todd: To what do you attribute Def Leppard’s longevity? It’s obvious the group has survived more than its fair share of trials and tribulations…
Phil: “Yeah, and I think that’s part of it, actually. I think it forced us to turn into grown-ups or semi-grown-ups from kids, ya know? (laughs) We’re still really stupid and make each other laugh a lot…but now we have the experience, ya know? We were just talkin’ about mortality…about how we lost (original co-lead guitarist) Steve (Clark), our parents…I’ve lost both of my parents… It’s an issue and we’ve always been there for each other. We can talk about these things directly with each other because we’ve been through them together. The more we’ve been though, the tighter we’ve gotten, if you like. There’s lots of things, ya know? We’ve always got each other’s backs, so there’s a nice comfort zone. …It’s really good that we can share all this shit with each other. It’s a really nice thing.”
Todd: When Steve passed away, were there ever any doubts that the group could or even should continue on touring and recording without him?
Phil: “Yeah, very much so. I was obviously very upset about it, but I was also very bummed because he had been taken away so young. It was like ‘Oh my God. This just isn’t the same anymore’. We carried on because we’d already written all those songs with Steve and we just went on. The album came out, went to number one and we just carried on from there, really. But initially, there were definitely doubts. It felt a bit weird. …It was very strange.”
Todd: What prompted the group’s collaboration with Tim McGraw? I’ll be the first to admit I didn’t see that one coming…
Phil: “And we didn’t either. Well, actually we did. Rick Allen, our drummer, his brother is Tim McGraw’s tour manager. So Rick has played with Tim (and his Wife and fellow Country star) Faith (Hill) and been on stage with them for years, really. He’s done all this stuff. Tim was always like ‘Oh, man. I’d love to do something with you guys. We should write something’. He came to one our shows about two years ago at the Hollywood Bowl and I knew that he wanted to write this song. …In the back of my mind, I knew we couldn’t do Country, but I knew we could do something Stones-y, ya know? So I played him the riff from the song, how it goes in the melody and stuff…and it kinda just clicked. We started that while we were on tour with Journey. We started recording it backstage, that song and we finished when we went down to Nashville. In fact, I was there when Tim did his vocals. It was pretty cool and it was kinda seamless. It wasn’t like when you get these hack songwriters or when someone forces a duet or something. It wasn’t like that at all. It was a natural experience, so that’s why I enjoyed that so much.”
Select Phil Collen Discography
Surreal (2008) ***
Songs From The Sparkle Lounge (2008) **
Yeah! (2006) **
Rock Of Ages: The Definitive Collection (2005) **
Best Of (2004) **
X (2002) **
Euphoria (1999) **
Slang (1996) **
Vault (1995) **
Retro Active (1993) **
Adrenalize (1992) **
Hysteria (1987) **
Pyromania (1983) **
Wasted Youth (1980) *
Sheer Greed (1980) *
* as a member of Girl
** as a member of Def Leppard
*** as a member of Man Raze